Needle retention

[Michael Broer]

I was wondering (in the case that this topic hasn't been raised on this forum before) about retaining needles. In classic texts such as the Systematic Classic of Acupuncture and Moxibustion (jia yi jing), retention times are given as a measure of breaths and seem to indicate that needles are to be retained for one minute at the very most.

Could any acupuncture historians out there care to shed light on when and why acupuncturists started retaining needles for 20+min as many of us have been instructed through modern TCM teachings?

John Macdonald touched on this topic in another discussion but I was wondering if anyone could elaborate.

Thank you

[Tim Cleary]

Because we got lazy...

Because we don't study needle technique as per classical acupuncture...

Because we see patients once a week instead of once per day...

and because we all got taught: it takes about 20 minutes for the qi to make a complete circuit of the meridian system.. moving at however many cun per breath.


Tim..

[jamie]

That's really interesting Michael, I will have to look that up.. I wonder if any studies have been done on comparing the effectiveness of short needle retention against conventional practice?

[mark]

If I remember correctly, Honora Lee Wolfe and Bob Flaws felt that the needles could be inserted, manipulated to achieve their desired effect and then withdrawn. However they felt that it was good for busy stressed out patients who are always on the go to relax on the table for around 20 minutes of needle retention. I believe I read this in the 2nd Edition of Sticking to the Point.

[Feng]

From <Nei Jing> we know, the Wei Qi circle whole body's meridians 50 times a day, 24hours/50circles=0.48hour/1circle=28.8 minutes/per circle, so the acupuncturist use 20-30 minutes as needle retention, I think Ying Qi and Wei Qi may same steps(move speed), so needle retention 20-30 minutes can stimulate the Ying Qi circulation also.

[Rebekka]

i too learned that it takes ca.21 min. for the Qi to complete a cycle. since i rely heavily on the pulse i do feel that those cycles vary, but the 20minutes are an ok measuring point, since around that time the pulse often stabilizes itself.. hope that helps.
rebekka
(acupuncturist & herbalist)